Tommy Igoe...

**FuseU1** · November 29th, 2004, 05:29 PM

Originally posted by Dazzler:
Why is this guy playing "with artists such as Lauryn Hill, Stanley Jordan, Art Garfunkel" if he can't hold a simple groove down and play in time with a click? I don't get it.

Because he's careful NOT to play like that on his session gigs [img]wink.gif[/img] [img]tongue.gif[/img]

Guess he's just the opp of field goal kicker Martine Grammatica...TI chokes when the "red light" goes OFF... [img]graemlins/hmmm.gif[/img] [img]eek.gif[/img] [img]wink.gif[/img] [img]tongue.gif[/img] J/K

WebDeco: His sound IS like ass [on the toilet no less]

LOL
Questions is..."cup, bowl, kettle, keg, or oil tanker" of-...?! [;cp

[ November 29, 2004 06:46 PM: Message edited by: fuseU1 ]

**Dazzler** · November 30th, 2004, 01:47 AM

Originally posted by Dazzler:
Why is this guy playing "with artists such as Lauryn Hill, Stanley Jordan, Art Garfunkel" if he can't hold a simple groove down and play in time with a click? I don't get it.
--------------------------------------------------

Because he's careful NOT to play like that on his session gigs

Yes Fuse, but this display is simply shocking AND it's left on a tutorial dvd which is obviously intended and to show students the importance of the fundamentals of drumming - which this guy clearly has not mastered.

I just don't get how or why he left in an example where he shows an inability to control his right foot and play a relatively simple pattern in time.

If this Tommy geezer was on a jazz gig, in the 4th chorus of Cherokee when it was burning and he was stretching out and improvising, creating and challenging himself and the other musicians then we could forgive him for maybe dropping a beat or not fully executing an idea. But this is the very opening of a dvd and he was demonstrating a basic groove which is has to be played in time, with groove and feeling, all of which he fails to accomplish.

Also his solos are loud, brash and tasteless.

[ November 29, 2004 09:51 PM: Message edited by: Dazzler ]

**CLWarunki** · November 30th, 2004, 03:04 AM

I think people are making this out to be a big deal when it's not, it wasn't THAT off...

...and I do agree, his soloing lacks dynamics.

Overall I think the guy has some good ideas and chops, but I woulden't even put him in my top 50.

**Dazzler** · November 30th, 2004, 10:00 AM

I think people are making this out to be a big deal when it's not, it wasn't THAT off...

CL, with all due respect, I think that you're missing the point here mate. If anyone releases an educational dvd which is intended to teach the basics of drumming, then an ability to master these basics is imperative. To say 'he's not THAT out' is not the pont, he shouldn't be out al all. Especially when he is opening his dvd with a rhythm that he can't play in time.

What does that tell a beginner about how to execute basic ideas and more importantly, of the standards we have to maintain in order to be good drummers with good time?

Let me ask you a question - would you go out and pay good money for a cd where the drummer doesn't lock in with the bassist or can't play his parts correctly (as in the case of Tommy Igoe). Would you want to put on a pair of headphones and subject yourself to out of time, grooveless drumming?

**CLWarunki** · November 30th, 2004, 11:02 AM

Right Dazzler, I do get it...

and if we want to scrutinize it some more, his pronounceation on some words could be more articulate... I mean the video is in english, for an english speaking market, so why can he not say "immediatly" properly? (pedal technique video)

I'm sure we could find other things, nothings perfect.

The kicks are hardly off... and no beginner would notice a kick being a millisecond off a click or bassline... sure Igoe could have been more of a perfectionist... but the mistake was almost non-existent!

Which kicks / sections did you think were really out of time? Point them out to me, pls.

**moosetication** · November 30th, 2004, 11:27 AM

I'm a bit confused too. The video was horribly out of sync with the sound in several places (especially where it cuts away from the front-on view and tries to be "cool"). But I confess I didn't hear a great deal that was as bad as being suggested. Yes, the kick got bent out of shape around 0:18, but "shockingly bad?"

Perhaps my standards are just too damn low.

I do agree about the live solos, which have the dynamic range of a stampede.

[ November 30, 2004 07:38 AM: Message edited by: moosetication ]

**FuseU1** · November 30th, 2004, 03:12 PM

Originally posted by moosetication:
[QB]Perhaps my standards are just too damn low.

I do agree about the live solos, which have the dynamic range of a stampede.QB]

LMAO

...And welcome to [just about] every rock drum solo ever performed... [img]wink.gif[/img] But i guess RnR was never really about nuance, now, was it... [img]wink.gif[/img]

Still haven't watched it...could it be that the vid is actually out of sync w the aud as was said...? If not, then I'd have to agree w Dazz AFA the ideology of what he's trying to say...but if it's a minor lock-in / feel thing, no biggie...but still, Dazz makes a point about being a pro & not wanting something like that to go out in permanent, instructional format documentation...
Have to go check it out...hmmmmm...

...2 strange oddities that have had me perplexed in here...this Igoe thing [as he kicked axe w the NYVoices], & that recent Dennard DVD fracas that has been commented about [havent seen that either]...as he was once[?] a very kick-axe drummer...don't know if the fact of his being deaf has anything to do with it...[?]

[ November 30, 2004 11:15 AM: Message edited by: fuseU1 ]

**MethodAir** · November 30th, 2004, 06:12 PM

His headphones might be part of the problem. I'm switching to stronger isolation headphones from the Beyer DT 100s I currently use. It's really hard to get a good mix when the drums are leaking through like crazy.

**Dazzler** · November 30th, 2004, 11:08 PM

Right Dazzler, I do get it...
and if we want to scrutinize it some more, his pronounceation on some words could be more articulate... I mean the video is in english, for an english speaking market, so why can he not say "immediatly" properly? (pedal technique video)

I'm sure we could find other things, nothings perfect.

being pedantic won't get you anywhere CL!! there is absolutely NO excuse for not being able to play a simple beat on an educational dvd, especially when you have the ability to record it as many times as you want and edit it heavily. He's in a high-tech studio with the latest recording and sound gear so there's no excuse for not hearing yourseld or having poor sound. Let's not forgive the guy for his ineptitude,
As I said previously and sorry to repeat myself, but Igoe isn't re-inventing the wheel here, he's demonstrating simple grooves - BADLY.

The kicks are hardly off... and no beginner would notice a kick being a millisecond off a click or bassline... sure Igoe could have been more of a perfectionist... but the mistake was almost non-existent!

Which kicks / sections did you think were really out of time? Point them out to me, pls.

Right away, in the first bar he plays two horrible bass drum beats out of time and continues to play inconsistantly. I can't point you to where in the clip as I watched it once and don't care to see it again. I was just horrified to read some comments lauding this guy, when from what I've seen. his solos sound like a fire in a pet shop and his time and feel are dreadful. That shuffle groove was rigid.

[ November 30, 2004 07:10 PM: Message edited by: Dazzler ]

**jonthibault** · December 1st, 2004, 04:00 AM

In any case, the video I was recommending (for what it's worth), is Essential Grooves, not the one you guys are talking about. I still think it's a good reference tool.

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